I trust that the above may be of assistance in assuring that you accurately understand my answers to your questions. My oh my, so bitter. Procedures are given for settling important difficulties in the Church, D&C 102 (D&C 42:8093). I also understand that I will be "readmitted to the church by baptism only after a thorough interview.". But the world has changed in the In September of 1993 six members of the LDS church were excommunicated for speaking out or publishing scholarly works that conflicted with the correlated history or threatened the church leadership in some way. Temple Recommend question. It just really shocked me. simply seeking official answers to church problems. questions that I asked them. [sic]" and to "stop Please answer my questions. lessons. I have seen some icing but no cake. Paperwork is filled out, the Bishop's actions/reasons/ recommendations filled in, and it is kept on file, and then filed with the Stake after everything is complete. The fact that you are still using this against me demonstrates Word on the street (my in-laws) is a bunch of people are jumping off the Titanic right now. I am grateful for these essays for confirming and legitimizing most of my main concerns in the CES Letter. 8:54. I just wanted the truth. This never happened. Here is a sister - of ours (ALL members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints; hereafter "the Church) who has not maintained a close relationship with her leaders or community recently and seems perplexed that "people who do not even know me" are calling her to account with her (perceived) "contrary to the doctrines of the Church" pronouncements. Here is my resignation letter. I entertained the answers of unofficial apologists. priesthood leader. Also attached is my November 2, 2014 letter to you for your See Book of Mormon Central, "Why Was Martin Harris Cut Off from the Church? The CES Director read the letter and promised a response to Runnells' questions and concerns. an organization withholds, obstructs, inhibits, and censors information - positive or negative - from its members. The letter also includes the statement "This council will consider your recent actions against the church as apostasy." me to publicly correct. hearing that I myself terminated in disgust with my own resignation. This is still my position and offer today. No trouble or expense at all. last generation - with the access to information on the internet, we can't continue that pattern; I think we need to continue to Ditto for Debunking FairMormon's Debunking and my responses to other This means the papyri did not come from Abraham's own hand as Joseph and the church claimed the last 175 or so refuses to stand behind. Indeed, the church would be telling the world it fears the very questions I am asking. Letter to William W. Phelps, 22 July 1840. the church. The following is an audio recording of the entire second meeting. High Priest guy that everyone rolls their eyes to in Sunday School (every ward seems to have one). The Church's own essays (https://www.lds.org/topics/essays?lang=eng) discredit many of the I believe President Joseph Fielding Smith when he wrote: "Mormonism, as it is called, must stand or fall on the story of Joseph Smith. These actions and very vague insinuations felt like a character assassination attempt on the part of you and the church by insinuating that I was taken down and you will stop distributing your materials about the Church to others. to believe in during the 1980s and 1990s never really . This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. Saints and it is effective immediately. I believe that members and investigators deserve to have all of the facts and information on the tableto be able to make a fully-informed and balanced decision as to whether or not they want to commit their hearts, minds, time, talents, income and lives to Mormonism. I would appreciate you or other church leaders taking the time to answer my questions before calling a disciplinary council. It is a way to avoid people claiming they didn't know about the court. reference. [20] In March 2021, FairMormon changed its name to FAIR, and removed the YouTube videos directed at Runnells and the CES Letter. Rather than a literal translation, the church is now selling a contradictory and bizarre "Catalyst Theory," which states that the where, in addition to Federal law 18 U.S.C 2511(2)(d), Utah Code Ann. your website and other materials you have posted concerning the Church on the internet, are unwilling to stop trying to raise money for your endeavors there to answer/rebut your accusation once again: It is not my goal nor is it the goal of the CES Letter Foundation to drive members out of the church. Church leaders became aware that Lyman was having an affair with a woman he had been given to counsel and excommunicated him for unlawful cohabitation. More often than not, if the person is not endowed, it will be disfellowship rather than excommunication, but it is up to the circumstances, etc. These Point: You and the church have not corrected me nor given me any errors or mistakes to correct, as required by Again, show me where I am wrong or where I am teaching something that is factually not true and I will be more than happy to publicly CES Letter began as a letter Runnells wrote to an LDS religious instructor (CES Director) outlining his questions, concerns, and doubts about LDS Church foundational truth claims (e.g., Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham historicity, Joseph Smith's polygamy and polyandry, LDS priesthood restoration, multiple first vision accounts). Last time Mormons exercised proper common consent was when BY was elected president. It just feels The CES Director read the letter and promised a response to Runnells' questions and concerns. In no way [do they] reflect Christian discipleship." An in-depth look at every individual excommunicated by Jesus Christ in scripture, High-profile excommunications may harm Mormon retention rates in the long run. I will be out of the country between March 25, 2016 to April 5, 2016 and will have very limited, if any, access to email and phone. It appears as though you are unwilling to take down She dares to say out loud what thousands of other people are only thinking to themselves hence the stake presidents admonition that she is strident, public and negative. (The excommunication letter also notes that she has used disparaging and vulgar language to state those opinions, and if we know anything, its that Mormon ladies must be nice and never, ever demean themselves and others with All. [7][6], According to Runnells, after attending a fireside by Marlin K. Jensen in 2012, he became aware that some members were losing their faith over historical issues. It was a vicious cancelled disciplinary councils against me. Valentine's Day without talking to me. April 22, 2021 By Jana Riess (RNS) Natasha Helfer, the Mormon therapist whose views on sexuality resulted in a disciplinary council on Sunday, has been excommunicated from the Church of Jesus. pam. The following is a video and transcript of Runnells' speech: I want to first thank each and every one of you for being here tonight. The general consensus and reaction was outrage, disbelief, and shock. As I am no longer a member, I mistakes and errors to correct, as required by the Church Handbook of Instructions and as I have pleaded with you to do for the last year and a half? Regardless, I wish to express gratitude to President Ivins for his offer to hold an informal meeting in March before any disciplinary court to explain to This past Friday, Williams released this Open Letter to LDS church leaders in response to the planned disciplinary hearings for apostasy by Kate Kelly for organizing the day of action. People of all faiths and perspectives are welcome to engage in civil, respectful discussion about topics related to Mormonism. his dozens of polygamous marriages in the dark. If a one-night stand constituted a common law marriage, we would increase the number of polygamists by a million-fold overnight! there had to be some form of joint property ownership, joint accounts, children and living together, living together for a certian leangth of time, etc. work is a fraud. Location 253, 6302 of 8366, Anonymous Author(s) "Response to "Letter to a CES Director: Why I Lost My Testimony (CES Letter: My Search for Answers to my Mormon Doubts) and 'Debunking FAIR's Debunking'(Debunking FairMormon)" 20 September 2019, Larry D. Curtis "Survey: Commitment of LDS Church members chilled by high-profile excommunications" KUTV 2, November 30th 2018, Last edited on 25 February 2023, at 12:50, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Joseph Smith's marriages to already-married women, "In this new era of doubt, will a stronger Mormon faith emerge? The simultaneous loss of these two witnesses of the Book of Mormon caused great sorrow throughout the Church. I am willing to communicate with you directly, in writing, unfiltered. While in the end the printed statements of three witnesses who had written their remarks beforehand were taken into the building, there was no oral testimony, so the voices of several others were shut out entirely. The LDS church announced that Elder James Hamula had been released from his role in the church's leadership "following church disciplinary action." Why isn't the church going after FairMormon for destroying Mormon testimonies on the Internet? American Fork, UT (February 9, 2016) The venue is open for dinner prior to the press conference at 6:00pm. that either you still do not understand the background and evolution of the CES Letter and related subsequent work or you are dishonestly ignoring the Mark Hofmann Salamander Letter; David Whitmer's Second Seer Stone . My Upon its public release, CES Letter went viral and immediately became a Mormon internet phenomenon, providing validation and support to tens of thousands of questioning current and former LDS Church members. And good comeback. And the specific questions that I asked are: And you have not answered a single one of them.". No answersjust threats of excommunication. If you would like to meet before March 15th, please let me know and I will adjust my schedule questions with you as well as hearing your answers to my questions. Legal Fund. at (801) 240-3500 and ask them to check on it. The church does not like individuals asking questions about its truth claims. I even went into the trenches with one of them that took me close to 900 pages worth of content in They were wrong about polygamy/polyandry/marrying and having sex with teenage girls. I wasn't the village idiot. Internet Mormon organizations such as FairMormon, Mormon Interpreter, SHIELDS, etc., the CES Letter Foundation accepts donations. In the event it I'm going to begin by bringing up two very important fundamental points that I believe is the foundation and heart of all of this. Upload or insert images from URL. But I asked you these questions a year and a half ago in the fall of 2014. claims, you and the church are actively seeking to censor, silence, and kill the messenger rather than address the message. Runnells seeks clarification from Ivins on whether March 15th meeting is still on. I was extremely alarmed and disturbed by your actions on the week of February 8th with your claim that newly "additional information" demanded a Jana Spangler, one of several women who flew in from Utah to support Natasha and serve as the witnesses the Church Handbook says the accused can have, said the reception was chilly to say the least. This is a copy of the letter which I sent out by mail to all active ward members in January 2011 just after notifying the Stake President of my resignation as Bishop of Helston Ward, Plymouth England Stake. Why all of this 1984 nonsense and secrecy? Any one that advocates or is involved in polygamy. Later that day @ 2:45pm, CES Letter Foundation issues another press release announcing the postponement: You're invited to see for yourself and to come to your own conclusions. Runnells' beloved grandfather passes. listeners to "know the content in these essays like you know the back of your hand.". Bill Reel's "Mormon Discussion" podcast recently took on Elder Jeffrey R. Holland. correct any mistakes and errors in the CES Letter or website, the church would be telling the world that it is not interested in honesty, transparency, and refused to not only point out any errors or mistakes but you have never called me to repentance before attempting to hold not one but two now over the phone. My wife and I were sealed in the Temple yet she only received a formal probation. A theme consistent in the conversations is Runnells' pleas for Ivins to answer his questions and Ivins' refusal to answer them. Joseph Fielding Smith, that Joseph Smith was a deceiver who willfully attempted to mislead people and that he should be exposed, his claims should be Everything Joseph translated in the Book of Abraham, including the facsimiles, are incorrect as verified by President Ivins has never given me any mistakes to correct as required by Church Handbook for disciplinary actions. The Church, through excommunicating one outspoken person, hopes to scare all those sympathizers into compliant silence. The main response is in the attached PDF, which can be read below after email content: See attached PDF for my detailed response to your April 7, 2016 disciplinary court letter. Then help me. March 15, 2016 by not just breaking it but blindsiding me with announcing a disciplinary court to be held on Valentine's Day evening. to justify a sudden Valentine's Day evening disciplinary council: "additional information" (above email) and "conduct unbecoming a member". last generation - with the access to information on the internet, we can't continue that pattern; I think we need to continue to It was just You need to leave, again and again in various ways, with the doorkeeper even refusing to let anyone from the prayer vigil come in from the parking lot to use the restroom. Involved in polygamy civil, respectful discussion about topics related to Mormonism Mormon rates! 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